Garie's Polymer Clay Shop: hard sculpey clay

I have been using Premo Sculpey for over 10 years and the new productions are inconsistant in color and some of the clays are hard and crumpy, certainly a disappointment for my students using and also customer purchasing them.

Comparison of two Premo 8 years old Violet and 2 years old Bright Green Pearl
after rolling 4 to 5 times, shows the quality between of the old and new premo

Comments Extracted From fb Polymer Clay

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6827704122/10153047582489123/?comment_id=10153049479884123&notif_t=like

You, Sarah Jayne, Petra Polymer, Rozen Martel-Gouélibo and 19 others like this.
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Ed Street Garie Sim these 'problems' are very well known and well documented as to what the cause is.

March 2 at 2:55pm · Unlike · 1
Jamie Hibbs This isnt an isolated incident Ed Street. Garie is just one in a long line of people I have read posts from who have all had the same issues. Since the new formulations Premo went from being a superior product to now in my opinion an inferior one. And ...See More

March 2 at 3:12pm · Unlike · 2
Jamie Hibbs And thank you Ginger Davis Allman for addressing once again the toxic clay myth. I swear that is never going to die!

March 2 at 3:13pm · Unlike · 4
Ed Street No it is not isolated. Inferior to what product?

March 2 at 3:14pm · Like
Ed Street The color changes and the crumbling is directly related.

March 2 at 3:15pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Inferior to Cernit, Kato clays, Fimo pro, Pardo, and even in some uses to the often reviled Sculpey 3

March 2 at 3:15pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street Kato has tons of fillers in it, pardo is very crumbly when it's fresh. Have never worked with sculpey 3 or cernit so I can't comment on those.

March 2 at 3:16pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs But in the case of Pardo they tell you straight off that because of the bees wax it will be crumbly at first. However it quickly warms in your hand and becomes quite workable. That is not the case for this Premo. Even when other clays or additives are used it can still remain unusable.

March 2 at 3:19pm · Unlike · 2
Jamie Hibbs And for the Kato the fillers you mention do not seem to greatly affect the clay or its performance so I consider that a non issue

March 2 at 3:19pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street The fillers in kato greatly affects it's performance in many ways. Kato is the least thermal reactive clay that I have seen to date. Which indicates a very high level of non-thermoplastic fillers.

March 2 at 3:21pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs For the work I mainly use it for, making beads and pendants it gives me a consistent result every time. I cannot say the same for Premo

March 2 at 3:23pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street Going back to the original poster and the problem he has noted. The company does state that some colors are less UV protected than others although they do try to make them all UV protected it greatly depends on storage and handling methods. If we were to split hairs on the subject I would have to say that 'UV protection' is a myth as everything will break down in the presence of UV after some degree of exposure.

March 2 at 3:25pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs All I can say is that of all my friends who were once staunch Premo users either because of the iffy quality or the color indifference or both, many have changed to other brands to get the consistency and colors they need. And if it were simply a question of improper storage why dont I hear these same complaints about other brands of clay? They certainly must run the same risks in shipping and storing as Premo does.

March 2 at 3:27pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street With the change in formula I think the order of business was suppose to have shifted to 'dark and cool' storage/shipping methods. UV sources can easily penetrate boxes and also shift in heat can generate UV exposure as well. This can happen with any brand of clay to be perfectly honest. Now however it may happen more frequently with some brands than others.

March 2 at 3:29pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Well their apparent indifference to their customers and to the quality of their product when it reaches said customers doesnt speak well on their behalf. Not to mention they specifically refused to continue to carry colors their customers wanted and ne...See More

March 2 at 3:32pm · Unlike · 2
Ed Street One question that I keep going back to is the 'blockers' that are used in the clay. These have a 'shelf life' if you will, a limited amount of absorber before they expire.

March 2 at 3:33pm · Like
Ed Street I did have a very interesting chat with one person from the company recently about these things.

March 2 at 3:34pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs But these problems have been seen even in very fresh clays. I think they need to rethink their formula again. Just because it looks like clay doesnt mean it is clay. And this is not acting like a very user friendly clay at the moment. As Garie said I have some very old blocks of clay from the old formula 2 changes ago. And I have yet to find one un usable. And Im talking greater than 10 years old.

March 2 at 3:37pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street Many pigments and dyes absorb UV and change colour, so paintings and textiles may need extra protection both from sunlight and fluorescent bulbs, two common sources of UV radiation.

March 2 at 3:37pm · Like
Ed Street Sensitive polymers include thermoplastics and speciality fibers like aramids. UV absorption leads to chain degradation and loss of strength at sensitive points in the chain structure. Aramid rope must be shielded with a sheath of thermoplastic if it is to retain its strength.

March 2 at 3:37pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Then why does 10 year old clay which surely has been exposed much longer than say a few month old clay, remain usable and predictable and the new clay doesnt even last a year?

March 2 at 3:39pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street that could be due to several reasons. Just to name a few: the absorbers used could be greatly depleted when the batch is made or soon after; the exposure to UV would shorten the lifespan; batch A may have more absorbers than batch B does; Batch A m...See More

March 2 at 3:44pm · Like
Ed Street by posting and listing the stamp codes on teh side does help the company know which ones are not that good so they can change the formula as needed. This is one key area that I have not seen many do and it can directly affect the quality of the product in future batches.

March 2 at 3:45pm · Unlike · 1
Jamie Hibbs Well then it would seem the answer is what I mentioned above. They need to rethink their new formulation and find out where it is failing and the original didnt.

March 2 at 3:46pm · Unlike · 3
Jamie Hibbs A direct comparison to the original would tell them everything they need to know. If they cant even keep their product consistant from batch to batch then where is their attention to quality.?

March 2 at 3:48pm · Edited · Unlike · 2
Ed Street They do, sadly these things are wrapped up in trade secrets and the like. The best thing we can do is post lot number stampings, list color, notify the company there is a problem and let them decide how to change things behind the scenes.

March 2 at 3:47pm · Like
Ed Street This company does pull samples and store them over time, also they perform numerous testings on each batch. I discovered this when I called about this very same problem not that long ago.

March 2 at 3:49pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs If only it worked that way Ed, but I really dont have much faith left for that thought. They dont seem to listen or if they do they dont seem to do much to correct the issue. That was very apparent during the last color change. So I dont think I can sit around and wait for them to "get it right" anymore.

March 2 at 3:49pm · Unlike · 2
Jamie Hibbs They may say one thing in a conversation but I am very sure that in the board room it is a very different story.

March 2 at 3:51pm · Unlike · 2
Ed Street Well the only thing we really have to go on is faith. These things are wrapped up under 'trade secrets' and proprietary information. You will be very hard pressed to get any company to disclose any type of information that would lead to knowledge of these formulas.

March 2 at 3:51pm · Like
Ed Street On the board room level the question will be ask "who is our buyers and what do they do with them" if the majority of the buyers are painting or adding dye/etc then the follow up question will be "is it really worth it to care about the color shifts since the overwhelming majority will be adding paint/pigments/dyes anyways?"

March 2 at 3:52pm · Like
Ed Street This same question strategy also applies to all clay manufactures out there.

March 2 at 3:53pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Im not asking for their formula. I wouldnt know what to do with it in the first place nor have the ability to use it if I did know how. All we are asking is for them to get back to the quality product we all used and loved. The one that made Premo such a success. They are rapidly losing that and their good name for being a quality product.

March 2 at 3:54pm · Unlike · 3
Ed Street You may not be asking or wanting or care about their formula but by them disclosing some information like this then some people can easily derive that formula. I have seen this first hand.

March 2 at 3:55pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Im not asking for that information. I just want them to do what their package promises. Give us a clay we can work with not have to work over before we can even use it. And as for the colors. The colors that were originally designed to be artists color...See More

March 2 at 3:59pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street If it was up to me there would be only the base cmyk colors, white and trans.

March 2 at 4:03pm · Unlike · 1
Jamie Hibbs That would be fine because you can make all the other colors from that. But you cant make clear colors from their current line up.

March 2 at 4:04pm · Unlike · 2
Ed Street This cmyk is why pardo is so appealing.

March 2 at 4:06pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Jamie Hibbs Also Kato clay. They dont have a bunch of fancy colors just the basic six plus black white and trans.

March 2 at 4:07pm · Unlike · 1
Jamie Hibbs Donna Kato does however have a very detailed mixing chart to achieve virtually any color

March 2 at 4:08pm · Unlike · 1
Ed Street I gave up on Kato when I learned they had mostly non thermoplastic ingredients.

March 2 at 4:10pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Well as I said before for the main uses I need them for they work very well for me.

March 2 at 4:11pm · Like
Jamie Hibbs Well my friends this has been a great discussion. Heres hoping someone other than us was listening? Good night Garie.

March 2 at 4:23pm · Unlike · 1
Garie Sim Thank You both for such interesting discussion, Jamie Hibbs is correct, I have been using Sculpey since 2001 and the problem with their clay, problem surface somewhere in 2012 and it started with Sculpey 3 in 2013. I made a complaint, they asking for t...See More

Garie's Polymer Clay Shop: Sculpey III Polymer Clay Is A Disappointment

CLAYPOLYMER.BLOGSPOT.COM

March 2 at 4:25pm · Like · 3 · Remove Preview
Cacky Vincent Why is that not a good thing, Ed Street?

March 2 at 4:30pm · Like
Ed Street Cacky Vincent one reason is because it mask one of the critical key thermal break points.

March 2 at 8:12pm · Like
Ed Street Garie Sim am curious what your storage methods are, using florescent lighting that's close to the clay?

March 2 at 8:13pm · Like
Garie Sim I've used all kind of lights fluorescent and incandecent light in the store for Fimo, Cernit, Pardo, Sculpey, Dukit or Kato, there's no reason for the white or yellow light to change the chemistry of the clay and makes it crumpy and hard, for your info...See More

March 2 at 8:52pm · Like · 1
Ed Street The color change, how deep did that go into the blocks? It was just on the surface right? Also lighting does not change the chemistry

March 2 at 8:56pm · Like
Ed Street I have had some blocks that were like this and called the company, spoke with a chemist about the problem and got some very good information as to what is going on. I posted all of it above ^

March 2 at 8:57pm · Like
Garie Sim If you cut the clay right through , it is not just surface, light will not change or distored clay color as the temperture is not hot enough to change it, it is just a manufacturing process. I am a distributor of Sculpey clay since 2001, I don't find any problem with the old clay formula. BTW are you representing Polyform ?

March 2 at 9:38pm · Like · 1
Ed Street no but I have had the same problem and have spoken to the company about it, I talked to a chemist who was very informative on this problem.

March 2 at 9:40pm · Like
Ed Street The problem I have with it is I am 50% colorblind and mixing colors is more of a major struggle for me, now throw in shifting colors then you have one big mess on your hands

March 2 at 9:42pm · Like
Garie Sim Ed, for me I like simple, friendly products and my concern are my kids at the workshop, if the clay is inconsistent and difficult to handle eventually, I will not recommmend them to the kids and adults. Due to the problems, I have reduced the Sculpey 3 and Premo range and the new Fimo Soft seem to be good at this moment, I am testing them.

March 2 at 9:54pm · Like
Ed Street OH and for the record. I was not arguing for the company. I was pointing out what I had learned with the same problem not that long ago.

March 2 at 10:23pm · Like
Garie Sim Ed, I was thinking that, somehow you are related to Polyform, I feel that they are more business minded and paying less attention to consumer's problem using their clay products

March 2 at 10:30pm · Like
Ed Street no, i have no relation to or with polyform in any manner. I do run a business and have an engineering background and also tech heavy.

March 2 at 10:32pm · Like
Garie Sim Anyway, it's good we exchange view and hopefully, there will be improvement in Polyform products, for the time, I am looking at also Fimo 16 basic colors, just like color pencil, we don't need 40 or 50 clay colors, just let the kids create colors with polymer clay.

March 2 at 10:47pm · Like
Isabelle Belzile have you guys noticed a change in the strength with baking using the new formula? I use to have no problem with thinner fine pieces now somtimes they carck and are frail I have to durability test absolutely everything and ive never had to do that till the last few years

Yesterday at 8:55am · Unlike · 1
Gayle Osborne Thompson Just experienced my first disappointment with Premo. I bought Shane Smith's tutorial for her FourSquare Cane technique and opened my 8oz block of Premo White. Immediately I felt that it was sticky and it just got stickier as I conditioned it. The Pr...See More

Yesterday at 9:19am · Unlike · 1
Dixie Ann Scott Sounds like the white was pretty new and the black had been around a few months. Gayle, Cindy Leitz recommends letting your clay sit for several months before using it. Of course most of us want to use it as soon as we get it. It might help if you chec...See More

Yesterday at 9:57am · Unlike · 1
Aimee Banovsky Premo white is r he worse in my opinion. I use Fino white pro black I love in Premo. But hate in Fimo. I like brown premo yet hate brown fimo. Bhahah

Yesterday at 10:00am · Unlike · 1
Aimee Banovsky Premo white is way to soft. Black in premo is a nice Shiney black. The fimo is matte,an harder. The brown premo is a beautiful brown. The fimo brown again is matte an dull

Yesterday at 10:02am · Unlike · 1
Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

Yesterday at 10:04am · Like
Ed Street what's up with all the spam?

Yesterday at 10:04am · Unlike · 1
Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

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Aimee Banovsky

Yesterday at 10:06am · Like
Aimee Banovsky

Yesterday at 10:11am · Like
Aimee Banovsky Omg. So sorry:( my 2yearold got my phone

Yesterday at 10:23am · Unlike · 3
Gayle Osborne Thompson Dixie Ann Scott Thanks for the info. Most of my clay sits on my shelf for at least 4 months before I use it - most longer than that. Do you know how to read the DATE? There are 8 digits stamped on the label. Maybe the first 6 digits are the date? The white is stamped 14102310 and the black is stamped 14012101. Could the first 2 digits be the year and the second 2 digits the month?

Yesterday at 10:33am · Edited · Like
Julie Ringen I believe the first 2 numbers are the year then the next 2 are the month and the next 2 the day....but I could be wrong

Yesterday at 10:59am · Unlike · 2
Ed Street http://thebluebottletree.com/how-to-buy-polymer-clay/ 4th paragraph.

How to Buy Polymer Clay

How to buy polymer clay? Well, you go to the store, pick it out, pay for it, and then come home and play with it....

THEBLUEBOTTLETREE.COM

Yesterday at 11:07am · Unlike · 4
Garie Sim This is my latest test between two Premo, 8 years old and 2 years old, open both packs, rolled it 4 or 5 times, see the result.

Yesterday at 1:48pm · Like · 1
Ginger Davis Allman FWIW, today I got out some old Kato, from years and years ago. About 10 years old. And it was a dream to work with. Smooth, no crumbles at all. I miss that clay. I also worked with some from six months ago and it was crumbly and awful to work with. So it's not just Premo and Fimo.

Yesterday at 2:08pm · Unlike · 3
Pam D'Andrea I had some very old Kato clay that was crumbly, I rolled it in a log somewhat and covered it with a thin layer of Pearl clay and just keep rolling it and folding it with my hands until I won.

Yesterday at 4:08pm · Unlike · 2
Ed Street You know very well that is not a valid legit test.

21 hrs · Like
Garie Sim Ed what is legit when we are just clay artist and consumer, this is a very basic test, as a consumer you meant we have to invest all the hardware to analyst the clay just to be legitimate

21 hrs · Like
Ed Street Ultimately you must think of the children, Garie Sim, for is it not that group that this formula change was instigated? With the health risk and the cancer risk? Some have alleged that the risk is a myth while others have said the risk is real, I do ...See More

20 hrs · Like
Ed Street Secondly it's very obvious that user bias was at state in this testing. With any form of testing the very first thing that needs to be eliminated is user bias, for example in this one how do we know that the same pressure was applied to both samples in equal amounts? Same with time. These are assumptions, even on your part.

20 hrs · Like
Garie Sim The manufacturer polyform have subjected their products to the US and European safety standards, as a education ftoy medium for the children. Can you confirmed that it will cause cancer? Anyway I am the test before the children and 28 years of using po...See More

20 hrs · Like · 2
Ed Street I can not say for certain but I do know that the old logic of "I have done this for y period of time and I have no z" is very much fail. (in this case the 28 years with no cancer) I will have to point to lead exposure for the truth of claim. In that ...See More

20 hrs · Like
Ed Street As with smoking many claim that they smoke 2+ packs a day and they are still alive but I can easily point to my father who did that and it killed him.

20 hrs · Like
Garie Sim It just a normal process of clay conditioning for twenty over years, we are sensitive and the feel of the clay you should know whether it is haed or soft. What is y period of time and I have no z" is very much fail. All you need is the amount of time r...See More

20 hrs · Like · 1
Ed Street http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854732/

Exposure to Phthalates and Breast Cancer Risk in Northern Mexico

Phthalates, ubiquitous environmental pollutants that...

NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV

20 hrs · Like
Ed Street http://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=24

Tox Town - Phthalates - Toxic chemicals and environmental health risks where...

TOXTOWN.NLM.NIH.GOV

20 hrs · Like
Ed Street http://www.ewg.org/research/down-drain/%C2%BB-phthalates

» Phthalates

Invented in the 1930s, the common industrial chemicals called phthalates (pronounced tha–lates) are used as...

EWG.ORG

20 hrs · Like
Astrid Wagenaar I have to agree with Garie; as a user of clay I would do the same test. What would an analysis mean to me, besides a bunch of number that I most likely won't understand? I do understand that when I roll out one type of clay and do the same with another...See More

20 hrs · Edited · Unlike · 1
Ed Street http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../lower-iq-found-in-kids.../

Lower IQ found in kids exposed to high chemical levels in pregnancy

A Columbia University study links higher prenatal...

WASHINGTONPOST.COM

20 hrs · Like
Garie Sim I am back after taking my kids for their regular walk, I hope they won't get cancer after sniffing and exposing to polymer clay in
the workshop.
Otherwise, I have to sue somebody, we are a group of responsible people and whatever remark that you made, about harm to
the children must be substantiated with proof.
You also cannot prove that I'm wrong in my test and that I have failed or the test is not legitimate, you must not scare others
with what you said about the risk.
"In that arena we know for scientific fact that adults exposure risk is greatly reduced from the same exposure in kids. For in kids
even the slightest level can cause serious problems." I am sure you can't substantiate this too, and that polymer clay can cause
cancer, after all you are also a user and owner of "Street -tek" with high exposure and high risk to cancer if that is what you say.
I do not like hear say about things without evident and double standard talk will lead to nowhere as you have no proof about it.
In this simple test I am not wrong, unless you want to prove that I'm wrong, I can offer you my samples to test them with your non-baised scientific method.
"With the health risk and the cancer risk? Some have alleged that the risk is a myth while others have said the risk is real, I do not know that answer to that one but I do know that with any change in formula with this magnitude there also must be changes in processing and handling on our part as artists."
In the first place this should not being mention as there are so many debate about it and you are not sure about the risk, why waste time, lets move on

18 hrs · Like · 4
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